Head sculpture blank

[Crankitup86]

The key word for today is C.O.M.M.U.N.I.C.A.T.I.O.N.

 

[SERRASALMUS RHOMBEUS]

It's weird, but I understand everything AS is saying... It's simple though... And he explained things clearly... I don't know why some "political" police on this subject... He was robbed, full stop...

 

[banks__r]

Where is the usual?? Unless the agreement is explicitly work for hire or if the work is based on copyrighted material, the artist retains the right for the work product including copyright. I have never heard of this being confused before in the industry.

'Always' is a long time and creating items digitally in this hobby is still relatively new. In the toy industry, this is all well known and the rules are well established. I don't even want to get into the legal side of it.

Wdym where is the usual? it’s just there.
Copyright, legal…. All that is thrown under the bus in these customs, and with artists in foreign, less legally reachable countries, all this stuff is blasted on ig, taobao, fb…

The sculpts friends and I have commissioned, we got our files, and we got our master sculpts to do with as we please.

Artists who do what I am saying:
Yixie
Yumi Kim
Mina yu
Jay
Hyunji
Taegyun
Pro toys
Donfung
Joa
Balloonman
Tda_pn
Beast master (I think)…
The list goes on.

 

[Gipetto0812]

It's weird, but I understand everything AS is saying... It's simple though... And he explained things clearly... I don't know why some "political" police on this subject... He was robbed, full stop...

Agreed. I have no skin in the game whatsoever and am coming to this from purely outside and with what info has been posted. But it makes sense to me

Sounds like there's this unspoken "rule"/assumption that a private commission in this space automatically grants you the rights to the master files to do with what you will and possibly the buyer assumed that was the case here. However, seems pretty clear to me that @onesixthsculpts made it known that one print was being made and that recasts weren't allowed, even if there's a bit of a language barrier.

The folks fighting back seem to just have the argument of "well, all the other sculptors give us the master file for private commissions so onesixthsculpts should have too." But, like I said, sounds pretty clear to me that it was a one and done type agreement.

 

[banks__r]

Agreed. I have no skin in the game whatsoever and am coming to this from purely outside and with what info has been posted. But it makes sense to me

Sounds like there's this unspoken "rule"/assumption that a private commission in this space automatically grants you the rights to the master files to do with what you will and possibly the buyer assumed that was the case here. However, seems pretty clear to me that @onesixthsculpts made it known that one print was being made and that recasts weren't allowed, even if there's a bit of a language barrier.

The folks fighting back seem to just have the argument of "well, all the other sculptors give us the master file for private commissions so onesixthsculpts should have too." But, like I said, sounds pretty clear to me that it was a one and done type agreement.

But one sixth sculpts never said the file isn’t his to have until paccman asked for it, and one sixth sculpts did not say it is a one off. One sixth sculpts never clarified. Very poor communication on his part

 

[Aric Jorn]

I've no idea what country OneSixthSculpts lives in, and I cannot speak to countries outside the USA, but copyright law in the US lands very strongly on the side of protecting an artist's rights to their own work and assumes the rights to be held by the artist unless there is a written/signed agreement wherein the artist specifically transfers some or all of those rights to a client (something an artist should only consider if s/he feels they have been fully compensated for their work whatever the client should choose to do with it). Artists who don't take the time to learn how to draft a contract and how to negotiate/communicate with their clients will end up getting the short end of the stick time after time.

 

[Aric Jorn]

I live in Italy. The problem is that most of us don't work under license, so basically a contract has no legal value. We're stealing image rights to the actors. So here there aren't rules, there are (or were) just consuetudes for everyone's comfort

Ahh, there's the missing piece. I knew there had to be some reason that artists were so easily taken advantage of. Yes, I suppose if the artist is creating work based on the unlicensed image of someone else, they can't very well claim the final work to be copyrighted. Thank you for explaining that.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Ahh, there's the missing piece. I knew there had to be some reason that artists were so easily taken advantage of. Yes, I suppose if the artist is creating work based on the unlicensed image of someone else, they can't very well claim the final work to be copyrighted. Thank you for explaining that.

The other aspect of it is, so much of this hobby exists in the 'gray market' like producing a William Wallace figure without paying for the Braveheart license. Everything is done 'under the table'. Rules do not exist.

A majority of the collecting community doesn't even think recasting is bad. They'll tell you that you didn't even have the right to sell that celebrity likeness head in the first place. They do not understand (and do not accept) the concept of copyright that you've outlined. So, the idea that a person who pays someone else a commission fee to sculpt a head doesn't get to do whatever they want with that head can be hard to understand for the person paying the fee.

 

[Aric Jorn]

These definitely are murky waters and after all I've heard, I'll likely stay on the client side of the equation. My advice to any sculptors remains, however, if you are to assume that the buyers who hire you in this "grey market" will feel entitled to recast (and profit) off your hard work, price yourself accordingly ... if you're good, people will be willing to pay for it.

 

[BigWayne]

These definitely are murky waters and after all I've heard, I'll likely stay on the client side of the equation. My advice to any sculptors remains, however, if you are to assume that the buyers who hire you in this "grey market" will feel entitled to recast (and profit) off your hard work, price yourself accordingly ... if you're good, people will be willing to pay for it.

Recasters are also willing to pay for it. Just spend 5 minutes on ebay and you’ll see sculpts that originated from a legitimate project that cost $200+ per person selling for $20 each in quantity.

Honest people will always be honest and dishonest people will always be dishonest. The only thing you can do is spell everything out up front and agree on the terms. If the person on the other side of the table gives you pause, then walk away before you shake hands and strike a bad deal. More often than not, your gut is always right. Not that anyone is asking for my advice, but that’s my two cents.

 

[The Rogster]

Paccman stated in the other thread that it wasn’t a recast but rather an entirely new sculpt he paid a traditional sculptor $2000 for.
Is there proof of the is? That would clear all of this up.

 

[The Rogster]

The sky is Pink. Check the video I published on YouTube and pay attention to the wrinkles of the eyes I originally sculpted. All the face is identical, but check those features in order to understand better that it's a recast

I’m not saying I personally believe him. Nor does it matter. My point is, if he lied about that, he lied because he knew he was wrong. However, if he didn’t lie then this whole thing should stop.

 

[DurdenTyler]

We are still talking about this? It's one sculpt....lessons learned on both sides...time to move on.

 

[The Rogster]

We are still talking about this? It's one sculpt....lessons learned on both sides...time to move on.

You can always just stay out of the thread.
I’m neutral in this but if Paccman paid $2000 to a traditional sculptor like he says than this thread needs to be taken down. His project is hurting. We should take care of our people.
That being said, if it’s a recast and he lied, well, I think the community should know. We never cared for the re casting.
If this was an artist like Balloonman or someone else, I think people would care more maybe.

 

[haytil]

I live in Italy. The problem is that most of us don't work under license, so basically a contract has no legal value. We're stealing image rights to the actors. So here there aren't rules, there are (or were) just consuetudes for everyone's comfort

The point of the contract isn't for "legal value." The point of the contract is to make it clear what is being paid for, what is allowed, and what is not allowed, by either party. This prevents mistakes and miscommunication.

That way, if someone does something that is against what the other party feels is fair or allowed, they have an agreement that they can point to when they feel the need to warn others in the community, and there is no ambiguity.

You can't do that in this case, because you don't have a contract. You posted one conversation, which I thought was pretty ambiguous. Then you posted a snippet of a different, later conversation (which may have happened after the money was paid and the work was done, it's not clear to me), which is an argument between the two of you, but I don't see any kind of agreement in that conversation, so it's not really relevant.

Next time, spell out all of the rights and restrictions beforehand, and have proof that such rights and restrictions have been agreed to (i.e., some kind of contract). Don't rely on "defaults and assumptions" in this grey area of custom action figure sculpts. It can't hurt you and can only help you.

 

[SERRASALMUS RHOMBEUS]

The sky is Pink. Check the video I published on YouTube and pay attention to the wrinkles of the eyes I originally sculpted. All the face is identical, but check those features in order to understand better that it's a recast

Where we can see the head to compare your sculpt on videos and the "PACMAN's head"?

 

[Masao]

A very good case for not working digitally.

 

[SERRASALMUS RHOMBEUS]

Intriguing! The wrinkles are the same...In the same way, same place, same shapes, same sculpt...Really, it's his sculpt! The one thing that's not the same, are the teeth...

 

[Crankitup86]

Intriguing! The wrinkles are the same...In the same way, same place, same shapes, same sculpt...Really, it's his sculpt! The one thing that's not the same, are the teeth...

The twinge between the eyebrows is not there on the right side and there aren’t any wrinkles on forehead either. (I don’t care who’s in the wrong or the right - just thought I’d point that out)

 

[Gipetto0812]

Intriguing! The wrinkles are the same...In the same way, same place, same shapes, same sculpt...Really, it's his sculpt! The one thing that's not the same, are the teeth...

The twinge between the eyebrows is not there on the right side and there aren’t any wrinkles on forehead either. (I don’t care who’s in the wrong or the right - just thought I’d point that out)

yup I think he mentions on the first page that those few things were changed on the Paccman sculpt