user 75274
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Thanks for the clarification.Nope. He paid for the sculpt itself, and it can't be reproduced. I'm still right now the only one who has the files. I'm not gonna share it soon of course, in order to prove what I'm saying.
Yes, he can do whatever he wants with the sculpt. Every change he needs. But it can't reproduce it and I've already told this to him. There's the whatsapp conversation which I still have.
Also if you read the new chat messages, Andrea is unbelievably unclear and constantly saying rules. Andrea left out a lot in his post and reply to me.He commissioned you to do a one off right? Therefore you shouldn’t be selling it. You can’t change up the rules in the middle and decide to charge him more. If he broke his word and started making casts after, that’s one thing. But he didn’t. If you wanted to do a run, you should have from the jump. Bad business bro.
Sounds like both are a little at fault. Simply for both not being 100% clear. But I don’t think he should be selling after it was a private commission or not. Pacc commissioned him for it so he should have a some equal say on if a run is opened or not. If not, so be it. Just my outside 2cents though.Also if you read the new chat messages, Andrea is unbelievably unclear and constantly saying rules. Andrea left out a lot in his post and reply to me.
Started a sculpt after Pacc got his Truman, said he would refund or something if the run takes off, , and he was too ambiguous once he asked for the file
No, you put it well. I agree with you.Sounds like both are a little at fault. Simply for both not being 100% clear. But I don’t think he should be selling after it was a private commission or not. Pacc commissioned him for it so he should have a some equal say on if a run is opened or not. If not, so be it. Just my outside 2cents though.
Hmmm….I’ve commissioned sculpts before and once it’s done it belongs to me to do whatever I please. But if the agreement was made during the transaction that’s it’s a one off then that’s part of the deal. I would have charged a price your happy with and say you can do whatever you want with it.
Did you see other sculpts of my Truman somewhere? Nope. I don't cheat.
Oh I have been there before with Roc…cough cough. A limited edition figure became a mass production of the head and sets alone. Never again….but those I have worked with that understood the agreement still honor that today. I think everything has to be discussed and honored when payment is made. In this case I think both sides should have been more informed? Idk….Unfortunately, most sculptors I dealt with in the past screwed me over this "one-off commission" kind of BS agreement. I never got the files from them, and only received my one-off sculpts which later on I found out by coincidence that my so-called "one-off sculpts" been printed and sold for 2-3 times to their friends without my permission. I don't want to drag myself into this topic, but wanted to clear this situation that I've dealt with.
I realize that I'm coming at this from an entirely different universe (like Iron Man making a cameo in Book of Boba Fett) but I'm interested in better understanding the custom collectible world (both as a potential buyer and as a potential maker), and I'm hoping you might be able to clarify something for me.I don't have a dog in this fight and am completely neutral. Given that, I hope you'll respect my viewpoint when I say that...
...there is nothing about the conversation you posted that is clear. It could easily be interpreted multiple ways.
Buyer asks: "And is the commission will keep private or you will post if after?"
Sculptor responds: "It'll be remained private. So the sculpt I'll deliver to you will be a single piece worldwide. But of course the reproduction can't be done."
When I read that, I took it to mean that the buyer was asking you, the sculptor, if you will be posting the file or selling copies of the sculpt after. And you, the sculptor, indicated that it would remain private (i.e., exclusive to the buyer), and that you would only be delivering a single piece worldwide (i.e., no one elsewhere would receive a piece from you, the sculptor).
Nothing about those statements indicates the manner in which the buyer would be restricted. It's his piece, you delivered it to him with no attached agreements, he can do what he wants with it. If he doesn't want it to be private anymore, it's his choice since he paid for it.
You then go on to say "Of course the reproduction can't be done." Maybe you meant "No one can reproduce it - neither me, the sculptor, nor you, the buyer." But perhaps the buyer interpreted it to be merely a clarification of your previous statement - that you, the sculptor, cannot do a reproduction.
This is a communication issue. You posted the conversation, and I - a completely neutral party - took it to mean something different from what you believed it meant (and intended it to mean), though I can see why you perhaps thought otherwise.
Based on what I've seen, my advice would be to completely renegotiate everything. Be very clear with the terms. If you can't come to a renegotiated agreement that you both can agree on, then he should return whatever you sent him, and you should return his money. If that happens, it sucks that you spent all that time without getting paid - but perhaps you can resell it (or do a run) later to recoup your money (also, the buyer will have his own difficulties if you cannot agree on terms as well). In the meantime, it is a harsh - but necessary - lesson on the importance of clearly outlining terms and agreements ahead of time.
Where is the usual?? Unless the agreement is explicitly work for hire or if the work is based on copyrighted material, the artist retains the right for the work product including copyright. I have never heard of this being confused before in the industry.Usually someone pays the sculptor and the master sculpt/ file is theirs to do with as they please. Keep it as a one off or make a run of it.
If you have other rules you should lay out your system. Most artists do not know how to consult properly in this hobby. I find myself asking so many questions that Just drag out the the process.
Maybe, but if you're being commissioned to create a HS, especially in this hobby, sculptors have always provided the digital files to the person hiring them. If he had just created this head on his own and decided to sell it to Pacc as a one off, then there wold be no expectation of him receiving a digital file. He would just get his printed head and that would be that. The problem was there was no discussion at the beginning about potential runs and and the sculptor told him in the middle after already ( I think) having taken the deposit money that he'd now be required to pay extra for the digital. That's on the sculptors side for not making that point clear in the beginning and before accepting any money. Cant change the rules in the 5th inning.Where is the usual?? Unless the agreement is explicitly work for hire or if the work is based on copyrighted material, the artist retains the right for the work product including copyright. I have never heard of this being confused before in the industry.
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