[sdabbs] Commando (1985) John Matrix head sculpt

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Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Man I can understand how frustrating it must be working on a sculpt, constant doubt over whether you're making a good change and wondering how it will affect other POVs etc. What looks right compared to one picture of the actor looks wrong when compared to a different picture.
:gah:

Anyway today's round of uncertain suggestions (suffice it to say, don't erase previous versions of the sculpt in case things go awry in later versions)

When I initially jumped into this with my first round of mods I kinda pushed the hairstyle away from the One-Man-Army look and towards the casual style he sports earlier in the film. This is how I would do the profiles for the actual One-Man-Army look. Basically the back of his hair should remain flat, almost a straight vertical line. If possible sculpt little spiky bits around his crown to suggest shorter hair that's sticking up a bit as opposed to lying flat. Oh and the front of his hair should stick up more vertically. (in one of these pics I changed the earlobe but ignore that because I realised the reference pic I was using was from a very different angle)






My attempt at what it (One-Man-Army hairstyle) would look like from the front, it's flatter across the top than the casual look:



^^or does that look too much like his T2 style? This is one of the things I'm uncertain about.





















Returning to the casual look here's how I would address what DEATHASYLUM was saying about it being too compact on top:





Note that I have those strategically place indentations in both the Casual AND One-Man-Army hairstyles, I think it needs them either way as Arnie's hair really does seem to carry a big risk of looking like a mini-afro in sculpt form if you don't have them















A different view of the One-Man-Army hairstyle:



^I found this one kinda frustrating to do. I worry that the adjustments I made to the hair here would make the profile view of the 3Dmodel very different than what I drew up in the pics at the top of this post. It felt like I was taking a lot more hair off in order to match to this particular movie shot of Arnie than I did in my other mock-ups.









And that takes me to DEATHASYLUM's other observation about the cheekbones possibly being too puffy:




My attempt to address that:






I also happened to look at a T2-related mock-up and noticed a possible cheekbone issue there, maybe symptomatic of the same thing we've got with Matrix:





The original pic minus the circles:










That's it from me tonight. You'll get a break from me tomorrow as I'll be off to a birthday party and then hungover in work on Sunday most likely.
 
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Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

We will go back to millinery flat top.

The casual look is too hard to sculpt with longer bits without it looking odd and also not sure how well it would come when cast in resin.

We'll make the cheek adjustments - not sure what to say about the eyes, i'll request the furrowed brow be deeper and I can have him frown more like the previous edit but then you loose the slant of the eyebrows so you always end up trading off something for another.

Maybe the passiveness is just because it is digitally painted with there's just dropped in
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

I applaud your contributions to making this sculpt the best it can be a-dev. You definitely have a keen sense of the things that make Arnie Arnie. I hope now that the one man army look has been settled on, all of the nuances of the face can be dealt with. Arnie definitely has some unique structural features that when even just a little off make a big difference, like the whole cheekbone area and that puffiness under his lips. Because this is the same basic sculpt being used for a number of characters, started as Conan, and now also Quaid, it would be great to see this nailed.
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Any chance for a less passive stare?

Also one of the important aspect f this hs is the size, HT headsculpt is too big for the body any chance to adress this issue?

Thanks for that awesome project
This hs was originally designed for the TTM20 and Kaustic Plastik bodies. It started out as Conan and is being adapted to other characters. This is smaller than the current HT Commando hs and would most likely look too small on the new body.
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

I should have specified that the break you would get from me would be an absence of new mock-ups, not of basic posts. I can still post in work :lol



Great work on the mockups a-dev, you've brought out more Arnie with your tweaks :)

I applaud your contributions to making this sculpt the best it can be a-dev. You definitely have a keen sense of the things that make Arnie Arnie. I hope now that the one man army look has been settled on, all of the nuances of the face can be dealt with. Arnie definitely has some unique structural features that when even just a little off make a big difference, like the whole cheekbone area and that puffiness under his lips. Because this is the same basic sculpt being used for a number of characters, started as Conan, and now also Quaid, it would be great to see this nailed.

Many thanks guys. Though I appreciate that it's all very well for me to throw in these suggestions, I'm not the one actually sculpting it and having to deal with a 3D program and the concerns of how certain things would come out in the casting process. So the main props to the sculptor himself, without his base sculpt I'd be lost at sea.

We will go back to millinery flat top.

The casual look is too hard to sculpt with longer bits without it looking odd and also not sure how well it would come when cast in resin.

We'll make the cheek adjustments - not sure what to say about the eyes, i'll request the furrowed brow be deeper and I can have him frown more like the previous edit but then you loose the slant of the eyebrows so you always end up trading off something for another.

Maybe the passiveness is just because it is digitally painted with there's just dropped in

I recommend against losing the eyebrow slant. Arnie can still look stern even with the eyebrows kinda slanted like that.




I know you said you had in mind to hold back, say, the ''Arnie one-eye super-squint'' for another sculpt so as to have something different about the sculpt for each movie but I think it's a really good fits-all expression whether he's a ''regular guy'' or an emotionless cyborg. And as these shots show it works whether the eyes would be painted forward or looking to the side. Neither does it seem to require that his eyebrows be rigidly straight-across.



The squint aswell as that kind of sneery look to his mouth (and associated lines on his left side face) would help the sculpt not to look passive. And again would just as easily befit a Terminator or a Barbarian
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

If you're paying extra for changes Frank, cheers :hi5:
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, we really want this to be the best arnie! I will get on the latest changes asap - due to time restraints we are limiting the commando run to just 10 heads for now, first come first serve
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Your friendly neighborhood updaterman:

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Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Ooooh that's much closer! It looks like the face is narrower from the cheekbones down which was actually a mock-up that I was trying to do just now. And from what I can tell the profile view of the cheek bones is more accurate based on that T2 comparison pic I posted.

Very impressed with this latest one, can't wait to study it more later - there's a possibility I might have further suggestions but I think and hope that the major work is done and anything I'd suggest would be minor stuff.
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Can you guys confirm my assumption about this digital sculpting program - its 3D so when you change something from one angle it will automatically and correspondingly affect the view from other angles aswell?
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

Well here's my next round of suggestions (hope I'm not overstepping guys, I just see this as a really great opportunity to try to nail this likeness down at last, which Hot Toys just hasn't been doing, even with DX13)








I know those are T2 pics there but it's the ears I'm drawing your attention to^^



By the way the new hair-job wasn't bad by any means, you're simply dealing with a straight man who has a bizarre fixation with Arnie's hair and has a very particular idea of what it should look like in sculpt form. And I strongly agree with myself on it.

I settled on the front view of the haircut after showing it to one of the mates who is a bigger Commando fan than I am. He had a few suggestions himself and that's what we came up with to try to nail the shape of this particular hairstyle. There was a fine line between either making it look like Red Heat or T2, but I think this is it.



This is more of a conjecture one for me, certainly make sure the last update is saved and isolated in case what I'm about to suggest is wrong, it could be very angle-dependant - but I do like the look of it:




In fact here's another shot of Arnie in T1 which seems to reveal the same profile jawline and chin shape:

 
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Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

....you're simply dealing with a straight man who has a bizarre fixation with Arnie's hair and has a very particular idea of what it should look like

Just thank God you never developed a man crush on Nicholas Cage instead.
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

:lol

Great work a-dev. If all of that feedback is taken into account, then we may very well have a perfect Arnie sculpt.
 
Re: Commando: John Matrix head sculpt [sdabbs]

I for one am pulling for all the changes to be made. I don't care if this takes a bit longer as well as the powers that be don't.
 
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