Head sculpture blank

[user 75274]

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[banks__r]

Didn’t he pay for sculpt file? I would assume when you commission a sculpt: the file or master cast is his to do with as he pleases.
Also wasn’t this all because he was not happy with the print quality, and wanted to have it done himself?

 

[banks__r]

Nope. He paid for the sculpt itself, and it can't be reproduced. I'm still right now the only one who has the files. I'm not gonna share it soon of course, in order to prove what I'm saying.

Yes, he can do whatever he wants with the sculpt. Every change he needs. But it can't reproduce it and I've already told this to him. There's the whatsapp conversation which I still have.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[The Rogster]

Ouch. What a shitty situation. Hope it’s cleared up soon

 

[DWill]

He commissioned you to do a one off right? Therefore you shouldn’t be selling it. You can’t change up the rules in the middle and decide to charge him more. If he broke his word and started making casts after, that’s one thing. But he didn’t. If you wanted to do a run, you should have from the jump. Bad business bro.

 

[banks__r]

He commissioned you to do a one off right? Therefore you shouldn’t be selling it. You can’t change up the rules in the middle and decide to charge him more. If he broke his word and started making casts after, that’s one thing. But he didn’t. If you wanted to do a run, you should have from the jump. Bad business bro.

Also if you read the new chat messages, Andrea is unbelievably unclear and constantly saying rules. Andrea left out a lot in his post and reply to me.
Started a sculpt after Pacc got his Truman, said he would refund or something if the run takes off, , and he was too ambiguous once he asked for the file

 

[DWill]

Also if you read the new chat messages, Andrea is unbelievably unclear and constantly saying rules. Andrea left out a lot in his post and reply to me.
Started a sculpt after Pacc got his Truman, said he would refund or something if the run takes off, , and he was too ambiguous once he asked for the file

Sounds like both are a little at fault. Simply for both not being 100% clear. But I don’t think he should be selling after it was a private commission or not. Pacc commissioned him for it so he should have a some equal say on if a run is opened or not. If not, so be it. Just my outside 2cents though.

 

[HyaZhao]

nothing to say with your shitty printing quality BTW confused about your saying “ he paid for the HS itself” means only 1 hs can be provided？Then ZB profile？

 

[banks__r]

Sounds like both are a little at fault. Simply for both not being 100% clear. But I don’t think he should be selling after it was a private commission or not. Pacc commissioned him for it so he should have a some equal say on if a run is opened or not. If not, so be it. Just my outside 2cents though.

No, you put it well. I agree with you.

 

[DurdenTyler]

Hmmm….I’ve commissioned sculpts before and once it’s done it belongs to me to do whatever I please. But if the agreement was made during the transaction that’s it’s a one off then that’s part of the deal. I would have charged a price your happy with and say you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[Finwee]

I believe you're probably both at fault for being unclear, but there's a lot of naivety from your side. From one sculptor to another, the attached image isn't how this hobby works. It's never been that way - ever. Not everything is about the money. And it's quite laughable that you're capping the potential of your master print at a budget printer level.

 

[Hosam-G]

Hmmm….I’ve commissioned sculpts before and once it’s done it belongs to me to do whatever I please. But if the agreement was made during the transaction that’s it’s a one off then that’s part of the deal. I would have charged a price your happy with and say you can do whatever you want with it.

Unfortunately, most sculptors I dealt with in the past screwed me over this "one-off commission" kind of BS agreement. I never got the files from them, and only received my one-off sculpts which later on I found out by coincidence that my so-called "one-off sculpts" been printed and sold for 2-3 times to their friends without my permission. I don't want to drag myself into this topic, but wanted to clear this situation that I've dealt with.

 

[Hosam-G]

Did you see other sculpts of my Truman somewhere? Nope. I don't cheat.

I'm not talking about you, sir.
I was only stating my point about some agreements I faced with some well-known sculptors.

 

[DurdenTyler]

Unfortunately, most sculptors I dealt with in the past screwed me over this "one-off commission" kind of BS agreement. I never got the files from them, and only received my one-off sculpts which later on I found out by coincidence that my so-called "one-off sculpts" been printed and sold for 2-3 times to their friends without my permission. I don't want to drag myself into this topic, but wanted to clear this situation that I've dealt with.

Oh I have been there before with Roc…cough cough. A limited edition figure became a mass production of the head and sets alone. Never again….but those I have worked with that understood the agreement still honor that today. I think everything has to be discussed and honored when payment is made. In this case I think both sides should have been more informed? Idk….

 

[haytil]

I don't have a dog in this fight and am completely neutral. Given that, I hope you'll respect my viewpoint when I say that...

...there is nothing about the conversation you posted that is clear. It could easily be interpreted multiple ways.

Buyer asks: "And is the commission will keep private or you will post if after?"
Sculptor responds: "It'll be remained private. So the sculpt I'll deliver to you will be a single piece worldwide. But of course the reproduction can't be done."

When I read that, I took it to mean that the buyer was asking you, the sculptor, if you will be posting the file or selling copies of the sculpt after. And you, the sculptor, indicated that it would remain private (i.e., exclusive to the buyer), and that you would only be delivering a single piece worldwide (i.e., no one elsewhere would receive a piece from you, the sculptor).

Nothing about those statements indicates the manner in which the buyer would be restricted. It's his piece, you delivered it to him with no attached agreements, he can do what he wants with it. If he doesn't want it to be private anymore, it's his choice since he paid for it.

You then go on to say "Of course the reproduction can't be done." Maybe you meant "No one can reproduce it - neither me, the sculptor, nor you, the buyer." But perhaps the buyer interpreted it to be merely a clarification of your previous statement - that you, the sculptor, cannot do a reproduction.

This is a communication issue. You posted the conversation, and I - a completely neutral party - took it to mean something different from what you believed it meant (and intended it to mean), though I can see why you perhaps thought otherwise.

Based on what I've seen, my advice would be to completely renegotiate everything. Be very clear with the terms. If you can't come to a renegotiated agreement that you both can agree on, then he should return whatever you sent him, and you should return his money. If that happens, it sucks that you spent all that time without getting paid - but perhaps you can resell it (or do a run) later to recoup your money (also, the buyer will have his own difficulties if you cannot agree on terms as well). In the meantime, it is a harsh - but necessary - lesson on the importance of clearly outlining terms and agreements ahead of time.

 

[Aric Jorn]

I don't have a dog in this fight and am completely neutral. Given that, I hope you'll respect my viewpoint when I say that...

...there is nothing about the conversation you posted that is clear. It could easily be interpreted multiple ways.

Buyer asks: "And is the commission will keep private or you will post if after?"
Sculptor responds: "It'll be remained private. So the sculpt I'll deliver to you will be a single piece worldwide. But of course the reproduction can't be done."

When I read that, I took it to mean that the buyer was asking you, the sculptor, if you will be posting the file or selling copies of the sculpt after. And you, the sculptor, indicated that it would remain private (i.e., exclusive to the buyer), and that you would only be delivering a single piece worldwide (i.e., no one elsewhere would receive a piece from you, the sculptor).

Nothing about those statements indicates the manner in which the buyer would be restricted. It's his piece, you delivered it to him with no attached agreements, he can do what he wants with it. If he doesn't want it to be private anymore, it's his choice since he paid for it.

You then go on to say "Of course the reproduction can't be done." Maybe you meant "No one can reproduce it - neither me, the sculptor, nor you, the buyer." But perhaps the buyer interpreted it to be merely a clarification of your previous statement - that you, the sculptor, cannot do a reproduction.

This is a communication issue. You posted the conversation, and I - a completely neutral party - took it to mean something different from what you believed it meant (and intended it to mean), though I can see why you perhaps thought otherwise.

Based on what I've seen, my advice would be to completely renegotiate everything. Be very clear with the terms. If you can't come to a renegotiated agreement that you both can agree on, then he should return whatever you sent him, and you should return his money. If that happens, it sucks that you spent all that time without getting paid - but perhaps you can resell it (or do a run) later to recoup your money (also, the buyer will have his own difficulties if you cannot agree on terms as well). In the meantime, it is a harsh - but necessary - lesson on the importance of clearly outlining terms and agreements ahead of time.

I realize that I'm coming at this from an entirely different universe (like Iron Man making a cameo in Book of Boba Fett) but I'm interested in better understanding the custom collectible world (both as a potential buyer and as a potential maker), and I'm hoping you might be able to clarify something for me.

In my world (as a fine art sculptor), copyright is ALWAYS retained fully by the artist unless there is an extensive contract (which is usually extremely expensive for the buyer commissioning the work often adding one or even two zeroes onto the final cost of the commission) and even then, it usually only confers *some* rights to the buyer. The only time that I've engaged in such contracts have been commissions made by a large corporation or organization where it is understood that they will be taking on the manufacturing of the piece (say an award statuette) and I am only being hired to sculpt the original and then sell them the rights to produce it themselves. There are simply no other situations (again, in my world) wherein a customer re-casting and selling my work would not be met with an immediate lawsuit (which I will win as I have won every time it has happened in the past).

Simply put, if you buy a piece from a fine art sculptor, your rights begin and end with the physical object you have purchased. You can burn it, throw it away, hand it down to your grandkids in your will, you can auction it off, paint it, set it outside to rust, or donate it to a museum. Any of that is fine. But the purchase of the art confers zero copyright and no right to reproduce, copy or make derivative works.

I understand that the custom collectible sculpting world operates under different rules and I'm wondering if there is a default set of understandings or rules in the community. If not there should be - and all the more reason for artists who engage in this type of commission to have a clear, well constructed contract signed by both parties that outlines what can and cannot be done with the art upon completion of the commission.

anyway, I'm all ears if someone can give me the lay of the land here - or point me somewhere that might give me the answers.

 

[banks__r]

Usually someone pays the sculptor and the master sculpt/ file is theirs to do with as they please. Keep it as a one off or make a run of it.

If you have other rules you should lay out your system. Most artists do not know how to consult properly in this hobby. I find myself asking so many questions that Just drag out the the process.

 

[Masao]

Usually someone pays the sculptor and the master sculpt/ file is theirs to do with as they please. Keep it as a one off or make a run of it.

If you have other rules you should lay out your system. Most artists do not know how to consult properly in this hobby. I find myself asking so many questions that Just drag out the the process.

Where is the usual?? Unless the agreement is explicitly work for hire or if the work is based on copyrighted material, the artist retains the right for the work product including copyright. I have never heard of this being confused before in the industry.

 

[DWill]

Where is the usual?? Unless the agreement is explicitly work for hire or if the work is based on copyrighted material, the artist retains the right for the work product including copyright. I have never heard of this being confused before in the industry.

Maybe, but if you're being commissioned to create a HS, especially in this hobby, sculptors have always provided the digital files to the person hiring them. If he had just created this head on his own and decided to sell it to Pacc as a one off, then there wold be no expectation of him receiving a digital file. He would just get his printed head and that would be that. The problem was there was no discussion at the beginning about potential runs and and the sculptor told him in the middle after already ( I think) having taken the deposit money that he'd now be required to pay extra for the digital. That's on the sculptors side for not making that point clear in the beginning and before accepting any money. Cant change the rules in the 5th inning.

 

[Masao]

'Always' is a long time and creating items digitally in this hobby is still relatively new. In the toy industry, this is all well known and the rules are well established. I don't even want to get into the legal side of it.