[MJ12] 1:6 Heath Ledger as The Joker Headsculpt

[Phine1]

If anything, the unpainted casts are the luckiest buyers. They have an original cast, with box, that they can send to be painted as they please.

The painted orders paid 300+ for theirs, and now a painted version is out for $40. I think they have more reason, but still slim to none considering how different the 2 heads will look, to be upset than the unpainted.

 

[Phine1]

unfortunately, a recasted Bill head isnt necessary - since Rainman has solved the recast issue by OFFERING HIS HEAD SCULPTS TO ANYONE AT A FAIR PRICE.
Baby Q has plenty of recasted rainmans, it doesnt affect originals one bit.

maybe there is something to be learned from Rainmans method. hmm. :monkey1

 

[Phine1]

Exactly! Even Rainman offers his unpainted sculpts of new characters for $50 or $60 per sculpt. His operation is much bigger but selling unpainted scuplts for $122 a piece from an artist who many have never done business with before just didn't sound right

I will have to agree here.
Rainman painted originals are $130. same price as this projects unpainted casts. I believe in fair pricing and I also believe in solving the recast issue by not making them so limited. Rainmans method is perfect. Make 1 run ever of the figures, but keep the heads rolling out for people who want it.

Anything that is offered with a "rare" or "limited" title, in any aspect of the manufacturing and selling business, will have copycats and people undercutting. It is about getting ahead of the curve and open offering the sculpts through this thread. It just makes me think people were paying for rarity, over quality. if that is why the price was so high, there is something seriously wrong here.

 

[philmah]

Don't like the price? Don't buy it.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

 

[Phine1]

This isnt a single sculpt commission so I do wonder what exactly you are talking about.

Want to know how to solve recasting issues? Set fair prices and have it open ended for whoever wants them.
I am not saying the prices you set are unfair, you set them at what they are worth to the artist, so be it. Fair enough.

if you are buying it because you consider it rare, and not for how it looks, I think you should seriously question why you are in this hobby to begin with.
There are plenty of other lucrative investments apart from 1:6 head sculpts.

 

[axecutioner18]

This isnt a single sculpt commission so I do wonder what exactly you are talking about.

This is a single sculpt commission - its a one off sculpt the artist is making, he is not determining the character nor is it a sculpt he chose to make on his own. The artist is treating this as the same way he would if any company would have asked him for commissioning. Exactly why I for the first time had to take deposits - or else it would be impossible to pay him the initial contracting cost. If you had read the first post when the project got underway you would have known. The bulk of the money goes into the commissioning. The prices factor in his commissioning cost + casting cost + cleaning castings + painting for painted ones.

Moreso when Mr.BigShot will get to know how much top Korean artist charge for a one off sculpt, and then he realises the charges for casting and cleaning by professionals is then Id like to see what his views are since he has so much insight about large setups and operations.

Oh I forgot! He has already made up his mind irrespective of what is explained or shown earnestly!

 

[Phine1]

This is a single sculpt commission - its a one off sculpt the artist is making, he is not determining the character nor is it a sculpt he chose to make on his own. The artist is treating this as the same way he would if any company would have asked him for commissioning. Exactly why I for the first time had to take deposits - or else it would be impossible to pay him the initial contracting cost. If you had read the first post when the project got underway you would have known. The bulk of the money goes into the commissioning. The prices factor in his commissioning cost + casting cost + cleaning castings + painting for painted ones.

If this was a single sculpt commission, only one person would be getting it.
The minute unpainted and painted casts were offered made it EXACTLY like any other project.

 

[Darkavatar]

again, nothing has changed for them. good luck painting over a sloppily painted recasted cast made from PVC. Let alone getting reputable board members to repaint the recasts.
Explain why is it so much worse for people who bought unpainted? They are getting exactly what they paid for.

I shoudln't have to explain u should be able to figure that out for your self.

Because he clearly supports recasting

No I don't, in fact I only buy painted sculpts that are painted by the artist themselves, unless of course the sculptor can't paint . None of my figures have recast heads, I have some of the rarest figures around. I am just stating the facts, that the authentic sculpt is no better than the recast as far as quality and likeness goes unfortunately.

If anything, the unpainted casts are the luckiest buyers. They have an original cast, with box, that they can send to be painted as they please..

Well the people that have posted about it on here that bought the unpainted ones don't seem too happy and thus, actually think they are unlucky.

 

[Phine1]

I shoudln't have to explain u should be able to figure that out for your self.

Well the people that have posted about it on here that bought the unpainted ones don't seem too happy.

Please, explain to me. I can't figure it out, honestly.
The unpainted buyers got the best deal. Send it off to get painted by a respected board member for 100-200$ and still paying less than the painted buyers paid. Respected painters won't touch the headplay sculpt for a repaint.

But this doesnt come down to cost. It comes down to availability. Make these available periodically in runs, and solve the issue entirely.

 

[Darkavatar]

Please, explain to me. I can't figure it out, honestly.
The unpainted buyers got the best deal. Send it off to get painted by a respected board member for 100-200$ and still paying less than the painted buyers paid. Respected painters won't touch the headplay sculpt for a repaint.

Yeah that is what I said in one of my post if u bought the recast with a horrible paint u would still have to pay about $200 at least to get it painted professionally by a pro. So in that sense they are not losing much at all. However, some people just bought this sculpt so they could repaint it themselves and thus, they didn't want a pro to paint it because they themselves are professional painters. Thus, money wise they feel ripped off that they paid $122.00 for this sculpt when they could of just waited and bought it for $37.00 on ebay. So I can understand why they would be pissed off.

I am not pissed off myself for what happen but I just feel for others like pro painters that bought this sculpt for themselves to paint. Not to mention Ankit who put this whole project together only for it to blow up in his face! :horror

But this doesnt come down to cost. It comes down to availability. Make these available periodically in runs, and solve the issue entirely.

Probably not entirely but would help. I would say the only way to solve it entirely is to charge high prices for the sculpts. That is why u never see any recast Adam's Joker sculpt on ebay because it is too dam expensive to buy in the first place!

 

[Phine1]

Probably not entirely but would help. I would say the only way to solve it entirely is to charge high prices for the sculpts. That is why u never see any recast Adam's Joker sculpt on ebay because it is too dam expensive to buy in the first place!

True - to an extent. Raising prices may stop other companies getting a cast to recast, and would also force them to charge more.... but that would also drive away people interested in buying the real deal, especially if it is like $600 for a single cast. :horror

I truly believe doing runs of these things will not only harm the recaster, but will give more money to the artist where the money should be going in the first place.
Anyone against it being open again is only in this for rarity, which is why this mess is happening in the first place.
If Rainman, for example (since he has clearly figured out how to counter the recasters), can offer his heads periodically 2 or 3 times a year, and have his original products value unaffected - so can this project, and future ones from you guys.

 

[Darkavatar]

True - to an extent. Raising prices may stop other companies getting a cast to recast, and would also force them to charge more.... but that would also drive away people interested in buying the real deal, especially if it is like $600 for a single cast. :horror

Yeah I know which is why this project was started in the first place. Not many people want to pay ultra high prices for a Joker sculpt.

I truly believe doing runs of these things will not only harm the recaster, but will give more money to the artist where the money should be going in the first place.
Anyone against it being open again is only in this for rarity, which is why this mess is happening in the first place.
If Rainman, for example (since he has clearly figured out how to counter the recasters), can offer his heads periodically 2 or 3 times a year, and have his original products value unaffected - so can this project, and future ones from you guys.

So there are no longer any Rainman sculpt recast available anymore at all? Or u talking about how he prevents his unpainted sculpts being on ebay before he releases the final product?

 

[Phine1]

So there are no longer any Rainman sculpt recast available anymore at all? Or u talking about how he prevents his unpainted sculpts being on ebay before he releases the final product?

Most of Rainmans sculpts have been recasted, by the infamous "BabyQ".

Rainman countered this, and other attempts, by offering his unpainted and painted sculpts 2-3 times a year by opening his store for head sculpts only.

to put it simply, why buy an imitation cast of lesser quality, if the real deal is available periodically to whoever is interested. This is why I believe Rainman is successful in what he does, because he listens to his customers and does SOMETHING to fend off recasters attempts. You can't recast clothing, but you sure as hell can recast headsculpts.

 

[Darkavatar]

Most of Rainmans sculpts have been recasted, by the infamous "BabyQ".

Rainman countered this, and other attempts, by offering his unpainted and painted sculpts 2-3 times a year by opening his store for head sculpts only.

I still don't understand how that method works, unless he only sells to buyers he trust and doesn't sell to people he doesn't know. Are the sculpts as cheap as the recast sculpts?

to put it simply, why buy an imitation cast of lesser quality, if the real deal is available periodically to whoever is interested.

Yeah but I know people who have recast and the authentic item of the same sculpt and they say u can't tell the difference. Thus, the recast appears to be the same quality as the original according to them.

This is why I believe Rainman is successful in what he does, because he listens to his customers and does SOMETHING to fend off recasters attempts. You can't recast clothing, but you sure as hell can recast headsculpts.

Yeah well at least he does something to prevent it.

 

[Phine1]

Basically, you cannot do anything to stop someone from recasting and reselling a head.
The best offence is a good defence, and vice versa. combat the problem by offering it directly form the source again.
just my two cents.

 

[Hydeous]

This sculpt really is the joker, it brings chaos :lol

Thrustmaster really brings out some pretty good points. I think MJ has nothing to do with the recasting, however I do have some questions and suggestions which I hope will bring some positivity in this thread:

*would it be possible to offer certificate for the remaining orders along with numbers to counter against recast? This has been done by creg and adam not long ago, and most respecting members so far has always wanted to get the original ones.

*I know the artist has previously said that he cant do it, but would it be too much to ask if he'd reconsider doing some rooted hair to differentiate the recasted painted ones to the hand made ones? Im sure most of the folks here who wanted one wouldnt mind shelling a bit more for the rooted hair version.

*This was originally stated that it will close order, but it seems that theres more time extension? I think we as the original supporting members that supported this project from the get go deserves to know whats the edition size number. I really dont see anything wrong with that.

*Would it be possible to refund anyone who wanted one? just throwing it out there, and if its possible, it sure would lessen the problems around here.

 

[Darkavatar]

Basically, you cannot do anything to stop someone from recasting and reselling a head.
The best offence is a good defence, and vice versa. combat the problem by offering it directly form the source again.
just my two cents.

Oh I see what u mean, like offer the same sculpt multiple times instead of just one time because it will just sell out and thus if certain people want the sculpt they have to buy the recast. But if the sculpt is often again and again from the original source that makes buyers not buy from recast sellers but from the original artist since they have a choice now. However, I am assuming the original sculpts are always still more expensive than the recast ones though?

 

[Phine1]

I am assuming the original sculpts are always still more expensive than the recast ones though?

This is true, in almost every case. But the extra $ is worth it on a variety of levels.
a) quality of cast
b) quality of paint
c) Looking at it and not feeling any guilt, because (see d)
d) money is going to the artist, not a recaster
e) Gives people the option, whereas now the only option for people not on the list is to buy the recast.....

I could go on, the only downside i see of offering it periodically is.....

not as "rare" if you will. If it is done in runs, plural, not just one run.
But this shouldn't bother anyone who truly supports the artist, and what they are collecting.

 

[axecutioner18]

But your honest revelation that your sculptor is knowingly breaching a contract by his employer in favor of a side commission says alot about the ethics of it all. I think you can agree why someone would think that the sculpt was leaked. No accusations, just pointing to the obvious.

See again all you do is throw controversial words out there hoping it'll spark out something. There has never been any mention of me about the artist making any breach of his contractual employers. Nor has the artist done such. But you have to end off your post with some material to denigratre as usual.

Good job. You definitely hold up to your reputation as the peanut gallery's finest

 

[Fan]

Was following the recent discussion in this thread over the last days and if somebody is interested, here are my 2 cents.

The heat of the moment is understandable looking at the fact that everybody who ordered it here paid good money for it but if the two following questions can be answered with "No!", I think there isn't much to complain about:


Did MJ12 or Axe know about somebody ordering with the intention to re-casted the headsculpt?

Did MJ12 ore Axe ignore hints about potential re-casters ordering the headsculpt?


Everybody was informed about the artists anonymity and a number of casts made wasn't mentioned as well when people ordered, so it was part of the deal that was agreed on. Imo that also didn't change when MJ12 posted pics of his work on Facebook. Another question in that context:


Did MJ12 offer the sculpts outside the board after the deadline that was given here?


If not, the loss of exclusiveness wouldn't be his fault as well. I'm not saying that there were no things that could have been done better / different also in my opinion, but again I think it was all explained as part of the deal before. :dunno


Some basic thoughts, that I hope will make everybody currently a little frustrated about having bought an original cast, painted or un-painted, a little more happy again:


One basic thing to consider is that a re-cast will never ever be as good at the original casts. It can be very very close but it's easily explained why it's not 100% the same. If you would imagine you'd re-cast a headsculpt again and again, each time taking the next re-cast as the source, you would end up with an un-textured distorted piece of plastic, this loss of quality starts with re-cast number one.

Please also consider that you're a part of a community where most don't support re-casted works, which is great imo as re-casting harms the original artists. If you have a re-cast, you wouldn't get support by many painters if you want to have someting changed or you couldn't even show pictures of it without at least getting complaints by some.
As part if the community with interest in custom headsculpts, take the work and the skills into account that are put into a it, you can be proud to have supported the artist, that's also a part you're getting with your headsculpt, opposite to buyers of re-casts.