[MJ12] 1:6 Heath Ledger as The Joker Headsculpt

[Phine1]

Was following the recent discussion in this thread over the last days and if somebody is interested, here are my 2 cents.

The heat of the moment is understandable looking at the fact that everybody who ordered it here paid good money for it but if the two following questions can be answered with "No!", I think there isn't much to complain about:


Did MJ12 or Axe know about somebody ordering with the intention to re-casted the headsculpt?

Did MJ12 ore Axe ignore hints about potential re-casters ordering the headsculpt?


Everybody was informed about the artists anonymity and a number of casts made wasn't mentioned as well when people ordered, so it was part of the deal that was agreed on. Imo that also didn't change when MJ12 posted pics of his work on Facebook. Another question in that context:


Did MJ12 offer the sculpts outside the board after the deadline that was given here?


If not, the loss of exclusiveness wouldn't be his fault as well. I'm not saying that there were no things that could have been done better / different also in my opinion, but again I think it was all explained as part of the deal before. :dunno


Some basic thoughts, that I hope will make everybody currently a little frustrated about having bought an original cast, painted or un-painted, a little more happy again:


One basic thing to consider is that a re-cast will never ever be as good at the original casts. It can be very very close but it's easily explained why it's not 100% the same. If you would imagine you'd re-cast a headsculpt again and again, each time taking the next re-cast as the source, you would end up with an un-textured distorted piece of plastic, this loss of quality starts with re-cast number one.

Please also consider that you're a part of a community where most don't support re-casted works, which is great imo as re-casting harms the original artists. If you have a re-cast, you wouldn't get support by many painters if you want to have someting changed or you couldn't even show pictures of it without at least getting complaints by some.
As part if the community with interest in custom headsculpts, think about the work that is put into a headsculpt, you can be proud to have supported the artist, that's also a part you're getting with your headsculpt.

All good points, thank you for chiming in. This community is awesome, and collectively we can make decisions on things that can help the future process of these works be a little more tight knit.

 

[Darkavatar]

This is true, in almost every case. But the extra $ is worth it on a variety of levels.
a) quality of cast
b) quality of paint
c) Looking at it and not feeling any guilt, because (see d)
d) money is going to the artist, not a recaster
e) Gives people the option, whereas now the only option for people not on the list is to buy the recast.....

All good points but unfortunately not everyone has the same morals, thus, they don't care about (c) or (d). However, when u buy an authentic sculpt, u don't have to worry about the sculpt being a poor quality recast, despite the fact that there are some high quality recast ones. So I guess u have piece of mind in that respect.

I could go on, the only downside i see of offering it periodically is.....

not as "rare" if you will. If it is done in runs, plural, not just one run.
But this shouldn't bother anyone who truly supports the artist, and what they are collecting.

I think I would rather own something just because I like the look of it rather than soley for value reasons. So I am glad Rainman does this. Even if it hurts the resale value.

One basic thing to consider is that a re-cast will never ever be as good at the original casts. It can be very very close but it's easily explained why it's not 100% the same. If you would imagine you'd re-cast a headsculpt again and again, each time taking the next re-cast as the source, you would end up with an un-textured distorted piece of plastic, this loss of quality starts with re-cast number one.

That's what I thought u are making a copy of copy so some details should be lost but people have told me they have both the recast and the original and you can't tell just by looking at it which one is the recast. I have seen pictures of recast sculpts and authentic sculpts all together in the one pic and was unable to tell which one was a recast. I also think depending on the materials or technology used for that matter that people could still produce high quality recast sculpts.

 

[TheFiend]

*This was originally stated that it will close order, but it seems that theres more time extension? I think we as the original supporting members that supported this project from the get go deserves to know whats the edition size number. I really dont see anything wrong with that.

Neither do I.

Im not one of those guys that needs to have something ultra rare, I just want something that looks cool. I asked initially for the edition size because I was excited and wanted to rough out how ling it would take to get X amount done. But when I got resistance on the question I became more interested in why we couldn't know than the actual edition size.



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[TheFiend]

Neither do I.

Im not one of those guys that needs to have something ultra rare, I just want something that looks cool. I asked initially for the edition size because I was excited and wanted to rough out how ling it would take to get X amount done. But when I got resistance on the question I became more interested in why we couldn't know than the actual edition size.

Sooo, why the weirdness on that question? :lol



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[TheFiend]

^ Ugh. Didnt mean to do that. Can't delete it on the phone.

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[Hydeous]

:lol:lol:lol

 

[Lakhota]

In ancient Chinese history a turtle is revered as a wise soul due to the slow and steady movements, but everytime I eat turtle soup I get diarrhea and race to the toilet. Think about that!

I can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it.

 

[Joned]

In ancient Chinese history a turtle is revered as a wise soul due to the slow and steady movements, but everytime I eat turtle soup I get diarrhea and race to the toilet. Think about that!

I can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it.

Lol ...... This guys ace . What the hell .. Lol

 

[KingGrayskull]

Chris Howes is Anonymos!

Joking aside people really dont need to worry in my eyes. Recasting is and always was an issue. You want a head sculpted by Trevor, WGP or BobbyC? Check ebay, they are roughly $35. However if you want to support the sculptor and motivate him to stay in this hobby buy the original, avoid the recast.
People who have chosen to buy the original will receive what they have ordered, a detailed finely painted resin sculpt. In my eyes these pieces almost have little souls. Not comparable to a PVC mass produced item. There is really no reason for anyone of the clients to be angry because of the recastig issue as you will still get what you habe paid for: a top quality item. the only one who has a right to be disappointed about this is the artist himself.
This being said I can however understand the frustration about the other issues such as edition size etc. I believe it would help alot to get people more relaxed if there would be a kind of certificate. It is really no big deal. Just use a pic of the proto, sign it, add an edition size and serial no and you are fine. This would raise the overall quality feel btw... I like this little extra touch when I get an Iminime figure...

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

I don't know how the casting process works, but....................................

Is there any reason any artist can't offer their high quality sculpt at their price and people who really go for the high quality like myself and many others here will buy that one. Limited run by the artist to keep the quality and paint apps as good as it can be, complete with small box and certificate or something like that.

But then.....................................

Go to the factories/companies that make and paint casts and get them done at the lower quality, lower paint app, lower price. If people already buy them anyway, then why not offer them from the source. People will know it's from the original source and they could also come with a different box and certificate or something.

 

[KingGrayskull]

Wont work. The problem is people dont want to pay more money than they need to which is a legitimate opinion. If an artist would offer both the resin and the pvc sculpt noone would buy the expensive one anymore. Also PVC is a mass production item.

Its a fact that most people buy recasts and accept smaller issues like a little loss in detail. If the paintjob isnt good you can always repaint it.

 

[Darkavatar]

Wont work. The problem is people dont want to pay more money than they need to which is a legitimate opinion. If an artist would offer both the resin and the pvc sculpt noone would buy the expensive one anymore. Also PVC is a mass production item.

Its a fact that most people buy recasts and accept smaller issues like a little loss in detail. If the paintjob isnt good you can always repaint it.

Not every recast is PVC in fact I think most are resin, so what has that got to do with anything? :huh Just because it is resin doesn't mean it is higher quality, since a lot of resin sculpts are poorer quality than PVC sculpts, as some custom sculptors cast their sculpts in poor quality cheap resin.

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

Once again, my most recent comments and responses that were respectful and well within the guidelines have been deleted. I have not directly insulted anyone or broken forum rules. There's an ongoing conversation here about this recast issue but only my comments have just been wiped out. I paid my membership fee but it seems like some mod thinks they have the right to treat certain members differently. I don't understand why this is being allowed to continue. I guess a mod thinks it's ok to just censor me when they feel like they don't agree with what I have to say. I've seen worse allowed to go on, but you have my money and you think it's ok to delete my words whenever you feel like it.

 

[axecutioner18]

So only the ones which are disrespectful have been kept? You haven't directly insulted anyone?!!

WOAH!

Look you dont like the project, me, or the artist all you do here is look to stir up some drama and ofcourse make snide comments. Why do you still hang out here and stir more drama?

EFIT: Sorry my bad, very redundant question on my part. You ofcourse do it because you can and you like it.

After all the things you wrote here and had to be cleaned up multiple times by mods you have the gall to say your comments were respectful? You have some nerve man. I'll give you that.

 

[krec9]

Once again, my comments that are respectful and well with the guidelines have been deleted. I have not directly insulted anyone or broken forum rules. There's an ongoing conversation here about this recast issue but only my comments have just been wiped out. I paid my membership fee but it seems like some mod thinks they have the right to treat certain members differently. I don't understand why this is being allowed to continue. I guess some mod thinks it's ok to just censor me when they feel like they don't agree with what I have to say.

:goodpost: I agree you payed a fee just cause the truth hurts doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[Phine1]

proving him wrong, or just simply giving a response related to what he is saying would seem to be much more satisfying than just deleting and ignoring his comments.
but I would draw a certain line when it comes to direct accusations with little to no proof or evidence...

 

[Rahmier84]

I think people want to know the run size still for those who purchased and would be nice to have a C.O.A. for all heads so people know they are getting an original

 

[axecutioner18]

So krec9 you also believe its true that me and the artist wanted to scam the buyers and therefore supplied the recasters with the sculpt. So I basically wanted to recast my own project!! How nice!!
And now because my project has been stolen and recasted I am liable to compensate the legitimate buyers?!

Answer these questions please.

Because that's all he has been harping about and alluding to since yesterday. When it came to the recasting issue his comments had nothing about it. All his posts were either snidely calling us the culprits or directly saying we are scamsters that's it.

 

[Phine1]

I think people want to know the run size still for those who purchased and would be nice to have a C.O.A. for all heads so people know they are getting an original

I would hope at this point that is without question.
Although the box is pretty spiffy.

Because that's all he has been harping about and alluding to since yesterday. When it came to the recasting issue his comments had nothing about it. All his posts were either snidely calling us the culprits or directly saying we are scamsters that's it.

while I agree he is mainly only making accusations, he is making them in form of a question he wants to be proven and answered. Reality is, there is no way to prove anything he is asking for. So he should give it up, as you have given him the only answer you can. It crosses a certain line when accusations are made.

 

[elvis1976]

He posted direct accusations towards Axe, he was asked to stop and he continued. That is why his posts have been deleted.

Any new posts not relevant to the subject or throwing false accusations or insults toward Axe will be deleted and infractions will be given.

So please respect that.