[MJ12] 1:6 Heath Ledger as The Joker Headsculpt

[**16k**]

One of the initial unpainted cast receivers must have supplied him... Kit Chen, or someone with that name was not on the list of people who were first shipped the cast. Deal is if he says he isnt the recaster he knows very well who it is. The fact he doesnt give it out shows exactly he is in the know... He makes blatant recasts of Iminime sculpts too and then mods them with hair and all. I saw that Iminime Daryl sculpt now with rooted hair that he is offering. He calls them his own sculpts...

Its not a surprise that many members of this very board prefer to buy a recast. Look at the EB The Big Boss thread, people know very well that their ideas of kit bashing with recasts ensure these people keep copying.

Guys, you're accusing Kit Chan, and yes, he's selling your recast, but I really think he wasn't at the origin of this. Actually, I bought that recast almost a month ago without knowing it was one (someone in the bank robber thread told pointed me to this thread afterward) and it came from Headplay. So unless they are the same guy, I can garrantee you that Kit didn't offer it at the time as I usually buy stuff from him and check his EBay page on a regular basis.

So my guess is HP and Kit are just providers and get them from a manufacturer who knows one of your middlemen.

 

[Hydeous]

I think Kit Chan is just a casual collector who happens to be a seller as well. He could care less if hes supporting the artists and have no clue who sculpts what etc... something most of the passionate hard collectors do (e.g. Yulli sculpts HT Jokers, Arnie sculpts Bruce Lee heads etc).

He happens to be offered a head by his usual supplier, saw the head, like the likeness for his kitbashes and sells them to his customers. So its more likely that hes just the scapegoat or the middleman in this case. The real mastermind/culprit is still out there. We only manage to identify the Pusher in the recasting cartel.

 

[The Iron Koob]

Is it true that he claims it as his own work?

 

[Kato.E]

This is my idea .... every artist offering their sculpt to public should also provide their own designed certificate ( as Adam did)

Any Freak memember here who want to share their collection, they should also show the certificate in their picutue. Anyone who are unable to show this certificate will be regarded as buying the recasted head. All of us will blame him for this.

Those collectors will feel no fun at all if they always been blamed by buying the recasted head. He can only feel funny himself while no people will hv a look of his rubbish collection.

Anytime when we find someone share this recast head in somewhere like facebook, instogram...etc, we will ask him : where is the certificate?

 

[Hydeous]

Is it true that he claims it as his own work?

No, at least not that I know of judging from what I read on the FB comments links.

He just said he made some sculpts, but no one copy them, since they werent any where near MJ, Adam or Rainman level. :lol

This is my idea .... every artist offering their sculpt to public should also provide their own designed certificate ( as Adam did)

Any Freak memember here who want to share their collection, they should also show the certificate in their picutue. Anyone who are unable to show this certificate will be regarded as buying the recasted head. All of us will blame him for this.

Those collectors will feel no fun at all if they always been blamed by buying the recasted head. He can only feel funny himself while no people will hv a look of his rubbish collection.

Anytime when we find someone share this recast head in somewhere like facebook, instogram...etc, we will ask him : where is the certificate?

This is a good idea, if every collector can do this and follow through. But I dunno if it will catch on to collectors, right now majority of the new collectors are just buying whatever looks good. They are buying copy HT heads on ebay because the retail price now is getting more and more expensive.

Plus those certificate are usually stored inside the box or in the cupboard and not usually with the figure or diorama setting.

 

[Thrustmaster]

As for the COAs, i think it's also a matter of time when these sellers/suppliers will include an identical copy of those licenses to the recasted sculpts aswell

And as for the supplier, Kit Chen gave me an address at FB, where we could find some suppliers there. But it's a chinese website, and i can't read Chinese. So if someone who can speak chinese or mandarin can have a look there. Maybe you can find something out: www.taobao.com

 

[axecutioner18]

Guys, you're accusing Kit Chan, and yes, he's selling your recast, but I really think he wasn't at the origin of this. Actually, I bought that recast almost a month ago without knowing it was one (someone in the bank robber thread told pointed me to this thread afterward) and it came from Headplay. So unless they are the same guy, I can garrantee you that Kit didn't offer it at the time as I usually buy stuff from him and check his EBay page on a regular basis.

So my guess is HP and Kit are just providers and get them from a manufacturer who knows one of your middlemen.

Our middle men? There are no middle men, all orders were directly taken via email and directly shipped to the customers. One of the early customers turned supplier, problem is you cant point fingers who it is.

 

[Kato.E]

As for the COAs, i think it's also a matter of time when these sellers/suppliers will include an identical copy of those licenses to the recasted sculpts aswell

And as for the supplier, Kit Chen gave me an address at FB, where we could find some suppliers there. But it's a chinese website, and i can't read Chinese. So if someone who can speak chinese or mandarin can have a look there. Maybe you can find something out: www.taobao.com

Taobao.com is more or less the China version of Amazon in US, or Rakuten in Japan

Kit Chen has not give you the answer indeed, he just play a game with you

 

[Kato.E]

You and me has ever paid for a many kind of lesson in our daily life

For good people, they will learn quickly and realize that it is not appropiate to buy the recast head. They will learn to find out whether the available sculpt is either original or copy one.

I hv some newbie friends buying some recast head at the beginning, then they learn quickly from me that the qlty of recast head is bad and they also respect the artist.

They all buy the original one and won't buy any recast head now!

No, at least not that I know of judging from what I read on the FB comments links.

He just said he made some sculpts, but no one copy them, since they werent any where near MJ, Adam or Rainman level. :lol



This is a good idea, if every collector can do this and follow through. But I dunno if it will catch on to collectors, right now majority of the new collectors are just buying whatever looks good. They are buying copy HT heads on ebay because the retail price now is getting more and more expensive.

Plus those certificate are usually stored inside the box or in the cupboard and not usually with the figure or diorama setting.

 

[Hydeous]

You and me has ever paid for a many kind of lesson in our daily life

For good people, they will learn quickly and realize that it is not appropiate to buy the recast head. They will learn to find out whether the available sculpt is either original or copy one.

I hv some newbie friends buying some recast head at the beginning, then they learn quickly from me that the qlty of recast head is bad and they also respect the artist.

They all buy the original one and won't buy any recast head now!

Yes, I agree. But sadly theres only a handful of such person in the collecting community.

In my country, people are buying recasted SS and displaying them like they would with the original piece. And feel proud that they get to enjoy the same statue for maybe 1/10 of the price (these are usually for older statues that cost 5-6X original retail value since they are rare). These are rich collectors too, so many of the average collectors are kind of hesitant when trying to remind them that the product they buy is not legit. Their justification is usually "Its the same thing, looks the same, and I'm not stupid to buy it 5-6X more expensive when I can get it at this price, they are just toys, no big deal."

 

[Hydeous]

Our middle men? There are no middle men, all orders were directly taken via email and directly shipped to the customers. One of the early customers turned supplier, problem is you cant point fingers who it is.

English is perhaps not his first language, as hes from France. So it might be a misunderstanding, Axe :lol


But look at it this way, only you have the list of the first batch customers which is prolly what, 10-20 people? minus the usual guys whos well known here, maybe you have like 10 new folks who you are not familiar with, Id say the culprit are those fellas when you narrow the list down.

 

[owen1313]

He had no shame of his sham and shameful words..:slap

 

[**16k**]

Well, everybody can't be a good person, I certainly am not as I buy recasts!

Truth is artists are now asking so much that sometime, if you want something, you don't have much choice left! It's sometimes the only way to make a character you want!
Making limited run and extremely expensive stuff is something I'll never understand. You guys would sell so much more if it were affordable in the first place. Somehow, people turn to recasters because that's the only way they can afford it.

Now I understand your point. You're making art and Art is expensive. But do you seriously think it's art? For me, it's always been a toy hobby, and nothing else? I also understand that other people may think that way too.

God knows I've spend my share on figs, custom and otherwise, genuine and recast, sometimes both as I usually buy multiple for customs, but tha prices have soared so much that it's become hard to keep up for most of us. When HT started, some of their figs sold for about $100. Now you're lucky is the price is $250.

And sculptors are going the same way. There used to be a time when you could get a hs for $50. Now people are asking $300.

I'm truly sorry for those who got ripped there, honestly, but with this hobby becoming a luxury activity, sadly this is bound to happen.

 

[owen1313]

Maybe the recaster is from here: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/3208725598

 

[Darkavatar]

The DX11 looks like kid's toy compared to this.

Seriously. I don't understand that at all.

It's because Hot Toys made it.

If you're okay with it, that's great. But there's no Ledger in that sculpt at all. I'm glad for those pics though because I was reminded why I thought a sculpt this expensive was necessary

It does look a bit like Ledger when it is unpainted and u can't see those stupid PERS eyes but the nose is still totally off as it is too narrow.

 

[jra81984]

Now I understand your point. You're making art and Art is expensive. But do you seriously think it's art? For me, it's always been a toy hobby, and nothing else? I also understand that other people may think that way too.

Of course it is art what are you talking about?!?! That is why people buy these figures in the first place. They are works of art. A sculpt like this joker sculpt is most certainly art. The amount of work into the sculpting and the painting is absolutely stunning. Saying it is a "toy hobby" and nothing more is an insult to the artists that create these amazing pieces. For me bashing my own figures is not about quantity...it's about quality. If an artist asks for $120 for a head sculpt I think that should be respected. This is not simple work....a lot of time goes into development and trial and error. These artists are not on a hot toys pay roll and they have to recoup for their time and materials.

Custom sculptors aside yes toys are considered art. Look at the work that goes into painting the figures and even the box design! I collect vintage Kenner figures because I love the boxes as well as how the figures were made in their time period. The toys you buy are you displaying them? I thought so...it's art. Even mass produced toys have much thought put into them. Heck even right now I am working on a licensed Movie based board game and the work going into it is amazing!

As for me I am proud to give MJ12 my money for my Butcher sculpt that I recently ordered. I might even get this joker sculpt as well. I hate to see recasters make it a possibility to not see more of their incredible work.

 

[**16k**]

Sorry, I get what you say, but for me, this will never be art or investment. Just a costly hobby. I've been collecting 12" toys since I was a kid, from my very first GI Joes to HT, and for me, they're just that: toys. Oh, and I know what you mean by hard work and details. I sculpt myself and though I don't have talent, I understand it all. Still, it's handcraft, like sewing or knitting, not art, just a fun hobby.

So yes, I display them... For myself! I'd even be ashamed to show them to others! What, a grown guy in his forties playing with dolls? I know, I'm being provocative, but that's what they are at the end: glorified Barbies.

As for the middlemen stuff, maybe I should have developed what I meant. Now, bear in mind that I discovered this thread recently and have absolutely no idea how you work and was too lazy to check back. If you are controlling production from A to Z ( meaning hand sculpting the hs, making your own molds, castings, paint job and shipping) then, yes, the leak can only come from one of your buyers ( or the sculptor himself, but, here, that's obviously not the case!).

Now, other break up the process, and it's particularly true with digital sculpting (dunno if it's the case here). Sculptor produces the head, sends it to printing, sends it to caster, who ships it back. A lot could happen, particularly with a digital file during all this process.

But then again, you seem to control the whole process, so it's probably from a costumer...

One thing bugs me though! Those mass produced heads come from a factory, right? Now, HT goes through them so counterfeiting them is easy. But you guys, you must necessarily have shipped to a costumer of yours who work or has connections with those factories. This is where you have to dig!

 

[**16k**]

The DX11 looks like kid's toy compared to this.




It's because Hot Toys made it.



It does look a bit like Ledger when it is unpainted and u can't see those stupid PERS eyes but the nose is still totally off as it is too narrow.

I do agree with you! I've just finished two customs: a prison Joker with no make up and it's not so bad, and I've resuculpted the nose, reprinted and haired another one and the likeness is great. The nose really throws it off!

 

[skooternb]

Sorry, I get what you say, but for me, this will never be art or investment. Just a costly hobby. I've been collecting 12" toys since I was a kid, from my very first GI Joes to HT, and for me, they're just that: toys. Oh, and I know what you mean by hard work and details. I sculpt myself and though I don't have talent, I understand it all. Still, it's handcraft, like sewing or knitting, not art, just a fun hobby.

So yes, I display them... For myself! I'd even be ashamed to show them to others! What, a grown guy in his forties playing with dolls? I know, I'm being provocative, but that's what they are at the end: glorified Barbies.

As for the middlemen stuff, maybe I should have developed what I meant. Now, bear in mind that I discovered this thread recently and have absolutely no idea how you work and was too lazy to check back. If you are controlling production from A to Z ( meaning hand sculpting the hs, making your own molds, castings, paint job and shipping) then, yes, the leak can only come from one of your buyers ( or the sculptor himself, but, here, that's obviously not the case!).

Now, other break up the process, and it's particularly true with digital sculpting (dunno if it's the case here). Sculptor produces the head, sends it to printing, sends it to caster, who ships it back. A lot could happen, particularly with a digital file during all this process.

But then again, you seem to control the whole process, so it's probably from a costumer...

One thing bugs me though! Those mass produced heads come from a factory, right? Now, HT goes through them so counterfeiting them is easy. But you guys, you must necessarily have shipped to a costumer of yours who work or has connections with those factories. This is where you have to dig!

For some it's a hobby, others about collecting in the true sense of finding rare and quality items. I proudly display my figures on my desk at work.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Hydeous]

I do agree with you! I've just finished two customs: a prison Joker with no make up and it's not so bad, and I've resuculpted the nose, reprinted and haired another one and the likeness is great. The nose really throws it off!

In hand, I think the dx11 head has maybe bout 85-90% Ledger likeness. Dunno why it won't translate well in photos, which get me excited to receive this as the MJ sculpt looks 95-97% Ledger likeness, so it must be very beautiful in hand.